Dadlopnik: Musings on Parenting and Technology

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/21/2016 at 09:44 • Filed to: Dadlopnik

I got into a nice !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in HammerheadFistpunch’s post yesterday, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! I sat down this morning to reply to Chan again, and ended up writing an essay on parenting and tech. I thought some might find it interesting, particularly Oppo parents.

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My boys, particularly my soon-to-be-eleven twins (I also have a 14-y-o), are hooked on YouTube. If they had their way, they would keep their heads plugged into the computer all day long. Mostly, they watch videos of other people playing video games. I have trouble understanding this phenomenon. I suppose it’s like getting all the rewards of playing the game without actually having to put in the effort.

We finally had to ban them from computers/VGs during the school week. It wasn’t that they were on them too much as it was that we couldn’t get them to unplug. It was like taking crack away from an addict. They would throw tantrums and scream and yell at us. They finally got used to it and, in fact, one of my boys came to me soon after the ban was instituted and he said, “I’m glad you made us turn off the computers because now we can play football with our friends.” Now, when their friend comes over after school, they play soccer, basketball, hide and seek, water bottle toss, you name it. All the things that I think kids should be doing at this age.

But it’s difficult, because computers are to this generation of kids what TV was to my generation. Parents called TV the great babysitter, because they could plunk their kids down in front of the set and get some work done. Now, we plunk our kids in front of YouTube or VGs to get work done but, more often than not, the work we want to get done is updating our Facebook status. For me, it’s writing about aviation history for Oppo.

Last Saturday, I went to my boys’ soccer game. Sitting next to me was a mom with two kids, and her other son was playing in the game. The two kids wanted to go home, but she told them sternly that she was here to watch their brother play soccer. Then she proceeded to spend the entire time looking at her phone and berating the other kids for acting up. Had she engaged the other kids, watched the game, taken her nose out of her damned phone, she would have seen her son win the game and her other kids probably wouldn’t be acting up.

These handheld computer wonders really are fantastic. They give us information, help us communicate, entertain us. But they also obsess us. I think it has to do with the basic human desire to want something now . What’s the temperature? I can look it up now . What time is the game on? I can look it up now . I got a text? I have to answer it now . We don’t have to wait. So we sit at dinner with friends all glued to the phone, or we walk with our heads down looking at the phone. The handheld has allowed us to be connected to the entire world while being entirely disconnected from our neighborhood.

Sorry for the long essay. I got on a roll, but I too am struggling with technology, wanting to use it while wanting (and needing) to be free of it. It’s tough. It really is an addiction.

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Illustration by Chris Ware

DISCUSSION (56)

S65 > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 09:49

That’s probably why, I don’t really understand it either. Nice essay.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 09:56

Then she proceeded to spend the entire time looking at her phone and berating the other kids for acting up. Had she engaged the other kids, watched the game, taken her nose out of her damned phone, she would have seen her son win the game and her other kids probably wouldn’t be acting up.

Kids learn by example. I’m not a parent, but I’m the next-door uncle and I see the way my niece and nephew are addicted to their tablets. Their mom is constantly on the phone either talking or scrolling through something. That’s exactly what happens.

CalzoneGolem > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 09:58

I have a 13-year-old and a 6-year-old. The only reason we don’t have a similar issue is because the only internet we can get at home has either a hard or soft cap on data. We currently have 4g and a soft cap of 20 gigs. We could have dial up which would have a soft cap of whatever we could download in 24 hours. We could also have a few satellite options which all have a hard daily cap.

jimz > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 09:58

There was a South Park episode about that too. I don’t get it either; there’s plenty of good stuff on YouTube, but kids sit there and watch some asshole narrate playing games, or shrieking twats like Fred or Ricky Dillon? honest to God I don’t think I could ever tolerate being a parent.

TysMagic > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:00

Nicely said. My wife and I don’t have kids but we do have phone and computer rules where we just turn it off and go do whatever (adult play time to just talking or taking a walk).
I want to pitch the next step in this addiction that is being pushed by most big tech companies, virtual reality. If you haven’t tried it out, it’s cool as hell. It provides an amazing floor for some wicked cool gaming and what not in the future. BUT TALK ABOUT ANTISOCIAL! You’re creating your own world for you. I don’t look forward to having to break my future kids of their addiction to it.

ttyymmnn > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
09/21/2016 at 10:02

I’ve known this particular mom for a few years, and she’s a mess. The whole family is a mess. She is constantly threatening the kids, “If you don’t stop, I’m going to whoop your ass!”, but the kids never stop because she never whoops their ass. IMO, the worst thing you can do as a parent is promise to do something, good or bad, and then not carry it through. Kids learn that Dad is full of crap and doesn’t mean what he says, and that actions have no consequences. You have to teach them about consequences early, because, if you don’t, some boss or college professor will. And then it will be too late.

ttyymmnn > S65
09/21/2016 at 10:03

Thanks.

ttyymmnn > TysMagic
09/21/2016 at 10:04

VR? No thanks. I’m kind of attached to the reality I’m in now, no matter how messy it is.

luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:14

I’m in the same boat. Your essay hits exactly the things I worry about with my own family. I’ve got three boys 6, 10, 12. The tantrums are very real. Even my middle son, who is the mature one, gets all huffy when I tell him to stop playing agar.io and come to dinner.

The phenomenon of watching other people play games is puzzling. My kids do it too. And it’s not just our kids, there are millions of people doing it! You might be on to something regarding why they like it so much.

My wife and I have banned screen time every once in a while, but it’s hard to stick to it. It would be different if they were doing something a little more stimulating, but it’s always those dumb youtube videos.

Tom McParland > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:15

Great convo...my son is only 4 and he loves watching YouTube, he will watch the same cartoons that he watches on TV, but for some reason, he likes them better on YouTube. Then he goes down the rabbit hole of random cartoon videos and toy reviews.

But yeah, shut down the computer and it is like taking crack from an addict. We have already had to start setting limits on what he can watch and when.

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:18

I’m right there with you. I now have two teenagers (God, help me!). My son is a little older than yours but has the same YouTube addiction. I finally set my home router to block YouTube, Vimeo, etc. If he wants to watch videos, he has to ask permission and if all of his chores are complete, I will unblock them for an hour. Want more? Ask again.

The result? Better grades, more time with the family, and more time to be productive.

ttyymmnn > Tom McParland
09/21/2016 at 10:20

I grew up watching 3 network channels and a couple of UHF channels. I can’t get my head around video on demand, but my kids will be all over it because they are used to finding what they want to watch, an watching what others suggest.

TysMagic > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:20

just talking about the future here - I’m happy in my current world as well

ttyymmnn > luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln!
09/21/2016 at 10:24

It’s hard, but once you drop the ban hammer you have to stick with it. The kids will bitch, but they will learn that you mean it, and they’ll figure out other things to do. At first, my boys just sat and watched Teen Titans Go (I actually kind of like that show). But they’ve seen them all, and they get bored, so they seek other ways to entertain themselves. They look forward to Friday after school because that’s when screen time starts again. But we can use that against them during the week. If they continue to be jerks, they lose computers on Friday. Or Saturday. Or Sunday. I don’t like taking it away, but I also give them the chance to earn it back if they screw up.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:32

Good possibility of addiction/alcoholism/other illness in her family history.

The Laundry List

That there is why I’m afraid to have children and have issues with trust.

KatzManDu > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:34

The shit with the youtube videos watching people play video games is the same at my house (with a 9 and 10 year old.) Or Minecraft.

Computer time is rationed and used as a reward.

Kids don’t have the same respect for technology that our generation has. Remember on the C64 or Apple 2 or early IBM PC you had to swap out floppy disks (or cassettes) to play different games or use different programs, and you had to take care of the disks. They don’t have any of that. They just have tables and/or laptops or whatever that just are “always on” and work.

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck
09/21/2016 at 10:38

All of my boys show a decided lack of motivation. Homework is a chore, because, particularly the younger ones, always want “help,” which really means they want dad to tell them the answer. When they read (because they have to for school), they set the timer so they are done exactly when their time is up. Finish a chapter? Forget that. I’ve done the exact minimum I need to do to be successful. When they have to write a paragraph for homework, it’s usually about three sentences, and it’s like pulling teeth to get them to write more. But they are getting good grades.

And their teachers aren’t really helping, either. My middle schooler got a 60 on a science quiz, and the teacher said he could retake it for a 70. When he went to retake it, she said he didn’t have to because his grade is “fine.” Sure, he’s got a 90.7 average, but that’s only barely an A. If he can retake the quiz, claw back a point or two on the average, he’s got some wiggle room. He doesn’t see it that way. He’s cool with lying in his bed and watching Youtube because he’s got good grades.

All this is to say that I wonder what effect the computers are having on this lack of motivation. When you watch other people play a game, you never have to earn anything your self. You don’t have to work for it. When you are getting good grades for minimum work, there’s no motivation to do the best you can. Maybe I’m trying to blame the computers when I’m not inspiring them to do great things. That’s something I’m still working on.

ttyymmnn > KatzManDu
09/21/2016 at 10:46

I often have to remind myself that kids will play with what there is to play with. My wife and I were talking last night about how we need to work on our kids becoming more responsible. Yesterday, the twins came home from school for the first time by themselves because I took their brother to the doctor (I’m a stay home dad). They were supposed to call then they got home, but they didn’t. As we talked, I was remembering when I first moved to live with my dad in VA in the summer of 1976. I was 9, and he told me the streets in the neighborhood that were my boundaries. I still remember them. Once I had that, I was gone, constantly riding my bike every day, out to the limits. But I did that because I didn’t have anything else. And, I guest hat’s what I’m saying: If I had had computers, I would have played them instead.

As you say, they have to be rationed, or that’s all they will do. My kids had to work hard to find something else to do, but they managed, and they are doing fine.

DipodomysDeserti > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:46

There definitely seems to be something different about kids programming from the ‘80-’90s than there is today. My siblings and I enjoyed watching TV, but it didn’t suck us in like I see it doing to kids today, especially with user selected programming (like YouTube). I didn’t own a TV until last year, and I started letting my five-year old watch cartoons on it. I had to stop letting her after a few weeks because it would just suck her in. My kids aren’t homebodies either. I’ve backpacked across Europe with them twice, we go on camping trips at least once a month, and I take them on hikes and work on my cars with them. I can stick my daughters in the garden, and they’ll make up games with each other and play for hours. However, you stick them in front of a TV and they’ll sit there all day.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 10:49

Mostly, they watch videos of other people playing video games. I have trouble understanding this phenomenon

You actually understand it better than you think. Ever watch sports? Glad it didn’t turn into a bitchfest about the kids these days though.

ttyymmnn > DipodomysDeserti
09/21/2016 at 10:50

I was watching TV as a kid in the 70s. We had three VHF channels and maybe 2 UHF channels. If it wasn’t the three hours after school, or Saturday mornings, there just wasn’t anything to watch and we turned it off. Now, we have cable channels that show kids programming 24/7. We have youtube, with its literally endless supply of programming. (And auto play of the next video! I’d like to strangle the guy who came up with that idea.) So, it’s a completely different paradigm.

My belief is that kids will find something to do. If they have endless video options, they will watch videos endlessly. That’s the easiest path. Take that away, and they may bitch a bit, but they’ll figure something out. It’s up to the parents to have the resolve to turn it all off, even if it makes the job of parenting a little bit harder.

ttyymmnn > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
09/21/2016 at 10:53

Actually, I watch a lot of sports. Thanks for the perspective.

Kids these days are either what we make them or what we allow them to become on their own. Parents can bitch about kids these days , but unless you are actively trying to shape your kid into a good, happy, productive human being, then you are part of the problem with kids these days.

ttyymmnn > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
09/21/2016 at 11:01

I don’t know these folks personally, beyond what I see at the field. There is one mom, (at least) two dads. One of the dads I rarely see, and he is...I don’t want to say “loser,” or “worthless,” because who am I to judge? But you get the idea. The other dad seems like a nice guy but, when he brought his son to the game two weeks ago, he too sat and stared at his phone the entire time and never watched his son play. The ones I really feel sorry for are the kids. The oldest one seems fairly well adjusted, and will probably be out the door when he turns 18. The middle boy is a discipline problem at school and will probably end up in jail. The youngest, the daughter, is sweet in spite of her mother. Kids that age are pretty resilient.

functionoverfashion > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 11:10

My kids are 2 and 4, and we use TV (no video games yet) quite sparingly, I think. It’s a way to provide some quiet time on a weekend, especially if it’s raining out and we’re all in the house together all day. We pick out one thing on Netflix or something, and maybe watch for 20-60 minutes at the most, then move on to something else. Most weekdays, no TV. And they don’t play with tablets or our phones at all.

Maybe we’re too far on the side of no tech? But somehow, I am confident they won’t be left behind in the tech arena because we didn’t let them use an ipad at every opportunity. You know what they both genuinely love? Books. And playing outside.

I’m not trying to say I’m killing it with the parenting thing, because no doubt there are countless ways I could improve. And we live somewhere that I can just let my kids play outside freely without any real concerns. We don’t both work crazy jobs, so we get good time with the kids. And we both spend all day at work with technology, so it’s nice to disconnect a bit around the kids.

Then there’s the example where, the other day, we’re at a kitchen showroom with both kids. Another couple walks in with a little girl about the age of our kids. She spends the whole time watching something on an iphone with headphones, quietly sitting. The parents accomplished their tasks freely. Our kids, on the other hand, required the full attention of at least one of us for pretty much the whole time we were there, and they weren’t exactly perfectly behaved... meanwhile we struggled to discuss any of the things we came there for in the first place. So there’s that.

I’ll leave you with this other New Yorker gem (not sure where to credit this, other than “Walsh?” / New Yorker Magazine?)

Kinja'd!!!

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 11:23

Exact minimums just KILL me. My son is that way when it comes to writing. We exposed him to a lot of books that interested him, so we don’t have as much trouble getting him to read once the devices have been put away. The big problem is a general malaise when it comes to getting anything done. I have to be the instigator. I have to make sure there are rewards and punishments. He does nothing just because .

He is lucky that I’m a decent instigator. Since the flood, we have put in many hours demoing, cleaning, and rebuilding. To his credit, he will put in the time and effort when it comes to helping someone else, especially if he’s given the chance to tear something down or build something up. Even more so if it involves power tools. I asked him what he thought about putting up drywall after we spent a day doing it. He was surprised at how easy it is to build walls. If he ever figures out how to get good measurements with a tape, he will be a wall-building fool.

Our issue with grades isn’t so much that he struggles with the work, it’s a matter of teaching him in a way he understands (damn new math and a crappy math teacher doesn’t help). Once he knows what to do, he’s fine. The problems we have are a) getting him to write down his homework so he doesn’t forget it and get a zero; b) getting him to understand that the teacher’s way isn’t the only way and if her way is confusing, letting us show him a different way; c) showing his work; and d) breaking longer projects into smaller chunks which can be accomplished over several days instead of panicking about the last-minute project that is due tomorrow oh-my-god-what-am-I-going-to-do!!!!!!!

Most of it comes down to time management and using a calendar to keep track of assignments. When he does this right, he’s an A student. When he doesn’t, he misses things and his grades plummet.

vicali > functionoverfashion
09/21/2016 at 11:48

Sounds like our house.. We’ve been actively unplugging - iphone in the drawer when we get home.. if it’s important they will use the house phone. Books, toys, colouring, reading.. tv sparingly..

Kids notice everything - we have a 3yo and a 5yo.. they ask me why I used a green cup for coffee three days ago instead of my usual blue one..

It’s a lot of work, but worth it.

Malanga > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 12:48

I meant to reply like two hours ago but my computer froze...

Anyway, you’re completely right on everything. I’m 16, and I would never admit it to my parents, but restricting tech is very beneficial to kids - me included. Like you said, it forces us to be more interactive with people and the world outside of our screens. I got my first phone (and a super cheap one that could do nothing but call and play snake) at 12, unlike the 6yrolds that get 6S+’s and stuff, never been able to keep phone/laptop in my room at night during the week, etc.. And I know that had my parents not restricted me somewhat, I wouldn’t have been playing football in the street or airsoft around the neighborhood, I would have been indoors watching YouTube all the time.

So keep it up - just don’t get too extreme.

ttyymmnn > functionoverfashion
09/21/2016 at 13:10

Your experience at the kitchen store sounds extremely familiar. And interestingly (or perhaps not surprisingly), one of the worst offenders when we’re out and about is my oldest. The horseplay got so bad that we brought them home and had “sitting practice,” where the three of them had to sit in chairs in the living room for ten minutes without saying a word. We need to do it again. If you kids like to read, take a book to the store with you next time. We had to go to the AT&T store once, and you know how long that can take. Our boys actually sat on the floor and read the whole time.

I don’t think you’re too far on the no-tech side at all. Growing up, I lost myself in books, and I wish my kids would do the same (again, I had no computers at all back then). Education, and knowledge for the sake of knowledge, is becoming a scarce commodity these days, and being inquisitive and knowledgeable is seen as a bad thing. Just look at the way we treat our scientists.

ttyymmnn > Malanga
09/21/2016 at 13:11

Thanks for the confirmation!

So keep it up - just don’t get too extreme.

The secret is balance in all things. Give a little here, take a little there. There is enough extremism in the world today.

RallyWrench > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 13:11

Right on the money. My wife and I both feel like our kids are harder to keep up with than others, and other parents always say their kids are easy. Then I see how captivated and stationary our kids are on the rare occasion we watch a movie or someone lets them hold a phone, and we get it. They seem harder because we’re actually engaging, teaching, and enjoying them constantly, providing their entertainment ourselves.

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck
09/21/2016 at 13:17

Are you sure you didn’t just describe my middle schooler? Perhaps our children were separated at birth? What is your son’s birthdate?

I understand that time management is a learned skill. What gets my goat, though, is that I try to teach him all of these things and he just doesn’t do it. As parents, we try to teach our kids skills that will serve them in life, but sometimes, the kid just has to find out on his own. My 8th grader is getting better, and he’s even doing his homework when we don’t tell him to. That’s a definite step in the right direction.

And don’t get me started on math! I’m a musician, so I only have to count to three. And, while I never failed algebra in HS, I wasn’t exactly a straight A student. I’m doing okay now that we’re just beginning algebra, but we’ll be in trouble in HS. Thank God his uncle is a math teacher. We’ve already had a number of conference calls. Hell, I’m posting to Oppo about how to solve my 5th graders’ homework!

Thanks for the reply.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 13:18

As functionality increases exponentially, toys are getting harder and harder to put down. Books are fully contained sources of entertainment.

Then came TV, where every successive hour brought something new from the available broadcasters but the time limits create a FOMO (Fear of Missing Out), which feeds addiction.

Then came networked devices such as computers and phones, where the user gets to choose what comes next.

And it gets more immersive and more difficult to remove a child user from it.

Malanga > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 13:23

True.

ttyymmnn > RallyWrench
09/21/2016 at 13:24

The operative word here being “engage.” There are times when I really want to get some work done, but my son says, “Can we throw the ball?” Kids need that time with their parents, even if you think the’ll be happy glued to a computer, even if they tell you that watching YouTube is what they want to do. Those little games of catch, or hallway soccer, are how lifelong connections are formed. But here’s the catch, parents: engaging with your kids requires WORK. Many parents are so self absorbed that they can’t see beyond their own needs and recognize the needs of their kids. And things like Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, etc. just add to that self absorption. Early on in my life as a dad I heard this saying, and I like it: There are no good parents or bad parents. There are parents who try, and there are parents who don’t try. I hope I am trying, every day. Some days I try harder than others. Some days I get mad and yell. But I’m always back there after everybody calms down, explaining what just happened.

KatzManDu > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 13:24

Because of the expat stuff and language stuff and the difficulties we’ve had living in Europe (after being in the USA for most of their lives) we still have to be parents, too. Also with junk food and “crap” food from the US (Kraft Mac and Cheese, etc.) we ration it and save it for good occasions.

ttyymmnn > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
09/21/2016 at 13:28

One of the things that I bemoan about my kids is that it seems like they have no idea how to pretend. I’m not sure they ever really did. Since they were little, there was TV and computer games. They provide all the stories, sounds, images. Everything. Why use your imagination when everything is provided for you? At least with a book you have to imagine what the characters and scenes look like.

Functionality increases, yes, but I also firmly believe that there is a lot of psychology going on with device and software developers. I believe that they are working with basic human instincts and desires to make their devices harder and harder to put down. I’m actually reminded of the episode of Star Trek: TNG where the entire crew started playing a game that was hypnotizing everybody who played. Maybe the writers were on to something.

ttyymmnn > KatzManDu
09/21/2016 at 13:29

Where are you?

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 13:36

That’s right, and why reading books is still a great thing for kids. Written text features a much deeper level of detail than the equivalent movie/TV series. All the movie adaptations of popular fiction stories are forced to distill everything onto a visual screen with a 2-hour time limit.

IMO entertainment/connectivity devices are just designed for greater functionality—whether that is by feature count or by user immersion. Those are what make the products marketable. The social impact is just a byproduct to me, or perhaps I need to up my cynicism game.

RallyWrench > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 13:51

Couldn’t put it better myself. I think we try pretty hard, and there are ups and downs, but I think the kids are becoming a good reflection of our effort. All one can ask for, really.

ttyymmnn > RallyWrench
09/21/2016 at 14:05

Indeed. All you can ask for. And really, that's all the kids are asking. They just need us to try.

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 15:07

They weren’t separated at birth, but it seems they were cut from the same cloth. :)

The age range of our children overlaps, but none of them, as far as I can tell, are the same age or in the same grades. I think your oldest is between mine and both of mine are older than your youngest pair.

Passive-aggressiveness seems to be a thing with pre-teen/early-teen boys. Ours aren’t the only ones I know who are exhibiting this behavior. It’s funny, I don’t remember being this way when I was that age. I was a pain in the ass as a 6th grader, but I had to get straightened out before 7th grade. My mom bought a small acreage and we had to clear the property to make way for the house. I was swinging an axe, doing basic plumbing, and doing basic carpentry before I turned 12. I certainly wasn’t going to be embarrassed by letting my mom do it herself.

There’s something to be said for having responsibility dropped on your shoulders at an early age.

I’m surprised you aren’t more comfortable with math. Music and mathematics are supposed to go hand-in-hand, although I never really understood that connection. Neither musician nor mathematician, my playing was always rote, never inspired. Without the music “in me,” I never became more than somewhat proficient. On the math side, I never delved into calculus, but I did take several courses in graduate statistics. I can talk about p-values, but don’t ask me about derivatives!

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck
09/21/2016 at 15:17

My esteemed trumpet teacher was fond of saying, “You only have to be able to count to three to play music.” I sat next to him for years thinking, “What about four ?” Then, one day, he said, “Of course, four is nothing more than two plus two, isn’t that right?” He had a magnificent way of simplifying things, though sometimes to a fault.

I actually enjoy seeing complex mathematics work. There is a beauty to the process, an orderliness, that appeals to me. I used to sit up late and watch physics lectures on public TV from Cal Poly. It was fascinating to see the numbers work out, though I had no idea how to make them work. That enjoyment of orderliness is why I considered becoming a draftsman, back in the day of pencils, triangles and T squares. And it has carried over into my enjoyment of music typesetting. But higher math always frustrated me. I had trouble conceptualizing it, though once I learned the formula, and could plug and chug, I was fine. My mind still fogs over on word problems, and I’m going to be in deep water when my son starts having to graph equations. I was never very good at that. Of course, I was smoking a lot of pot in high school, and wasn’t terribly motivated. I was a C student, even though I enjoyed my classes, and only excelled in band, where there were no equations, no essays, and no tests.

My oldest often gets after his brothers to perform mundane takes like turning off lights and flushing the toilet. He often berates them when they aren’t doing a task, and I repeatedly tell him that he doesn’t have to; it’s my job as dad, not his. However, I think it’s his way of trying to assert himself on people who are not necessarily going to fight back. I’m sure he’s just trying to find his way as a budding adult, but I don’t really want him to rush it so much. There’s plenty of time for that later.

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 15:48

I excelled in the sciences and was little more than a mediocre player of instruments. I didn’t really enjoy band until my junior year when I joined the jazz band and I made drum major. I still enjoy picking up a guitar, but I’m not driven to make music so I don’t take the time required or seek out formal instruction in order to improve my hacking. Give me some chords and a rhythm to play, I’ll accompany you. Don’t ask me to sing and don’t ask me to lead.

It’s funny you mention drafting. I nearly went for an engineering technology degree, but went with the hard sciences instead. I discovered geography mid-way through college and recognized that I tend to think geospatially. Although I don’t practice it often, one of my favorite parts of my job is geospatial analysis and geostatistics.

As for your oldest, I think that is a symptom of being the oldest child. My daughter does the same thing. I literally laughed aloud when you said it’s your job. We say the same to our daughter all the time! I am amazed at the difference between the two. She’s self-motivated and driven to succeed. My son wants to be successful, but he needs guidance to get there. I’m hoping he will come into his own soon. We’ve made a lot of progress on that front this school year.

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck
09/21/2016 at 15:55

After drafting, I took a surveying class in HS, and I really wanted to become a cartographer. But my grades weren’t good enough (see above) and I didn’t get into any of the colleges I applied to as a geography major. So, I went to the local university to get going and they started throwing money at me to play in the band, the pep band, the jazz ensemble, the brass ensemble. Suddenly, I was being paid to play. So I followed what I could do, rather than what I really wanted to do. Despite a fairly decent career as a musician, I think I might have been happier as a cartographer. Though I would probably have lamented the passing of paper and pen in favor of computers. I try to use this as a parable to teach my son that what you do now can dramatically affect you later. You’ve got to do well in school so you can follow whatever career path you choose, and not the path of least resistance. Still working on that.

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 16:19

I was smart enough to get good grades without much effort. Unfortunately, I didn’t have much guidance or help figuring out what I wanted to be when I grew up. The only thing I got really excited about was flying helicopters, but I couldn’t get any guarantees from the military, so I went to college instead. I nearly went into Landscape Architecture, but the first semester course load (18 hours, 7:30am classes) spooked me back into general studies. I fell into the sciences, but in my senior year I realized that the job market sucked and I was facing poor pay and years of student loan debt. After struggling for a couple of years, I met a guy who introduced me to a professor who convinced me I should be in grad school. That’s when I discovered how geosciences tied in well with biological sciences and policy. Now I do a lot of environmental work. The passing of pen and paper only saddens those who love the feel of the medium. The analytical tools at my disposal now were unthinkable back in the day of analog analysis.

We work hard to give our kids lots of experiences so they can find their path. Both my wife and I didn’t have much experience and little or no guidance, so we both just fell into our current careers. I still dream of flying helicopters. As exciting as it is, the WRX is a poor substitute.

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck
09/21/2016 at 16:22

You can always get your helo license. It’s an expensive hobby, though. And, there’s this:

Kinja'd!!!

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 20:43

It's that expensive part that gets me.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 23:20

You should get a home version of ArcGIS and start teaching yourself. You'll love it.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/21/2016 at 23:28

I might, but I don’t have the time.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 23:37

I hear you - maybe you could get the kids into it some day and learn along with them.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/21/2016 at 23:49

That’s a good thought. Thanks.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn
09/21/2016 at 23:53

Tons of free data from the federal and local government - 3D modeling competent might help make it “cooler” for the young-uns.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/21/2016 at 23:57

I found the site for it. I’ll check it out in the morning. Time for bed!

KatzManDu > ttyymmnn
09/22/2016 at 04:25

Currently in Belgium for just over 2 years. Will likely be in the UK by this time next month.

ttyymmnn > KatzManDu
09/22/2016 at 10:10

What sort of work are you in? I would think that raising kids in that setting could be particularly difficult, especially if you are trying to maintain some semblance of American culture. That said, I’m somewhat envious of a friend from grad school. He was originally from New Zealand, but got a job playing in an orchestra in southern Denmark. Their son attended a German school and, by a young age, he was fluent in Danish, German and English.

KatzManDu > ttyymmnn
09/24/2016 at 05:44

I do specialized computer security work. I had an opportunity for an adventure to Belgium and we took it. Now the adventure isn’t panning out as well as I’d like and I’m looking at other options. I’m waiting on a UK work permit.